Curse

Sword Hammer Axe · Jul 09, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

/notsigned

Uw, FoW, Urgoz, Deep and DoA are elite areas that are made for players to team up and do this. It would ruin a lot of the concept having people loning the entire area.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Your logic really makes no sense. Why not ToA but yes to Chantry and Zin Ku? Also, some people H/H so they can go alone and not with anyone; even friends or guildies.

Wholehearted /sign from me. I really see no reason not to, as it disadvantages nothing. In fact, Henchmen should be ascended everywhere, as there is no reason not to.

First, I explained my logic in a post above, try reading everything. Second, Henchmen are not ascended everywhere due to the fact that they are "stuck" in the storyline. Where you go to get henchmen is where in the storyline they are. If you go to ToA, those henchmen are still serving the White Mantle, you go to CHantry of Secrets, those henchmen are on the way to Vabbi, etc. etc.

As a restatement from before, I'm hardcore about henchmen not being allowed in Elite Areas, especially if they can only go to UW and FoW after an update, but no other that they currently cannot go into. And as stated before, I would much rather see the removal of all Henchmen (and a few heroes) and make Devona and co. heroes. (Removal of a few heroes to make the amount of heroes balanced at 3 per profession with the addition of new heroes)

bhavv · Jul 09, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

/notsigned

Uw, FoW, Urgoz, Deep and DoA are elite areas that are made for players to team up and do this. It would ruin a lot of the concept having people loning the entire area.

No, compared to the actual elite areas, UW and FoW are easy cake.

They arent elite areas, they are just slightly challenging, yet completely easy.

You couldnt even get anywhere in Urgoz / Deep / DoA with H/H anyway because of the map layouts, environmental layouts, spawn patterns and boss skills.

UW and FoW are not elite in anyway at all, they are just ordinary places that you have to pay to enter.

Theres another thing. If you want to solo UW / FoW you need to pay the full 1k everytime., whereas in a full group of players, you only pay 120g. If someone is willing to pay the full price and go in alone, why not let them?

People are already doing this to solo ecto and shards, how much difference would it make if these players went in with H/H instead? None at all.

bhavv · Jul 09, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Let me first say, I personally prefer to play with H/H. And what I meant by socialize in the game, is to talk to people, make "friends" that can help you do stuff like duo FoW/UW with heroes.

I've already done that for the last three years. My friends dont play the game anymore, and the few new friends I make are busy with other things, they cant do whatever I want, whenever I want.

Also, I am completely unable to feel 'socially connected' with anyone in a video game who I dont know in real life, and dont even know what they look like or have never personally met them. I get my social fix from real people that I can see and talk to, not characters running around in a video game. For some reason, I can only socially interact with people in real social circumstances, I cannot do it over the interwebz. I usually forget people that I once knew inside the game because it is hard remembering every fictional name you come across.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Overall, the point of henchmen not being ascended is to make the Elite Areas harder, allowing them into one Elite area that they currently can't will cause such massive QQ on both sides (those being "Why are can they go there now! It's no longer Elite!" from the Elitists, and "Why aren't they in Urgoz, Deep, and DoA!!!1!!1" from people like you who want Henchmen in the Elite Areas).

Yes, elite areas are really hard with ursan blessing :x

Using H/H in elite areas would be far more elite then using real players. There wouldnt really be many complaints because everyone that enjoys solo farming there wont oppose to this chage, neither will the people that would prefer to H/H.

Also, it doesnt matter at all how many people complain anymore, after all, UB still hasnt been nerfed. People would appreciate this change. If you wouldnt like it, no one would be forcing you to use it, just like no one is forcing me to play ursan way.

And in case you missed the whole point for this suggestion - I dont play ursan way, period.

It is very hard finding non ursan groups for some elite areas and dungeons now because the majority are running ursan way.

You really cannot consider or see the point of view from people that dont like playing the same way that you do. We arent all identical, just because you like and enjoy something like ursan and player groups, doesnt mean that everyone else feels the same way.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes, elite areas are really hard with ursan blessing :x

then why don't you use Ursan Blessing. The reason why you started this thread was to get away from UB, so why even bring that up?

Quote:

Also, it doesnt matter at all how many people complain anymore, after all, UB still hasnt been nerfed. People would appreciate this change. If you wouldnt like it, no one would be forcing you to use it, just like no one is forcing me to play ursan way.

Seeing how you obviously havn't been keeping track of things, ANet said that they are looking at UB (to nerf it). So just wait a little with that ok? And no, no one will be farcing me to use it, and yes I will use it, but no I don't want it, I want some areas to be a little less doable than everywhere else.

Quote:

And in case you missed the whole point for this suggestion - I dont play ursan way, period.

Never said you did, I never even brought it up, you did, multiple times in your posts.

Quote:

It is very hard finding non ursan groups for some elite areas and dungeons now because the majority are running ursan way.

You really cannot consider or see the point of view from people that dont like playing the same way that you do. We arent all identical, just because you like and enjoy something like ursan and player groups, doesnt mean that everyone else feels the same way.

How I see it, we play the same way, but we have different "perfect game" ideals. I get that, but you don't seem to get that I get that. I am not saying this is a god awful suggestion, I am saying I don't agree with it, and why. I am starting to get that you believe I am an Ursan lover (FAR from the truth) or an Elitist (again, FAR from the truth). I'm not an idiot either, I know that no one plays like me, wants to play like me, or should play like me. I prefer everyone to have their own playstyle, HOWEVER, I still disagree with any henchmen concept, especially those in Elite Areas.

Like I said many times, I'd rather see people able to play with 5 heroes rather than 3 heroes and 4 henchmen. You don't seem to get my point of view, but I get yours. I'm giving alternative suggestions and your spitting in my face (verbally, mind you) seemingly implying that I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about and saying that I am trying to force things on others, which, as I said, is NOT the case. I have been stating my opinion, explaining them, and defending them. Please stop accusing me for something I am not doing (and, please note, I did not accuse you of anything, just stated how I am taking things of what you said, that is excluding the part about you thinking I want everyone to play the same, as you did say that, and again, that is not true.)

R.Shayne · Jul 09, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Doesn’t Matter if they nerf what ever build is currently the most powerful teams will just want whatever classes that gets them to the end chest the fastest. Currently the fastest team for UW Speed Clear is 2 W/Me R10 Ursan, 1 Permasin, 3 Terra Tanks, and 2 HB Monks. If they nerf ursan blessing (and notice IF since ANET has not disclosed if they will or not) the only thing that will happen is that they will replace the 2 Ursan with what every build is the most powerful.

The first problem that players will face is that teams do not want classes that do not fit in with the current speed clear party. Players will be forced to switch character classes and they will most likely be forced to bring the “correct” build. So if someone primary character is a Mesmer and they want to actually finish the Underworld it is not going to happen.

The second problem and this one is going to affect everyone is the game is 3 years old. The last expansion was almost a year ago and the number of people is growing smaller every day. Starting a pug right now for a UW Clear is almost laughable and takes way to long just getting a group together. If you believe a ursan nerf is going to solve this problem I have only one question to ask, “Do they drug test where you work?”

I hate pugs and refuse to do it but the good news is I have 2 accounts. So when I feel like completing the UW I don’t have to pug. I just do it with 6 Heroes instead of 7. Others here have stated that they would rather not do an elite area then be forced to try with a pug. So if you give these people henchmen or heroes it does not really matter, they would not have been enjoying your company anyway.

DarkGanni · Jul 09, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Also since ToA doesn't have lvl20 henchmen, make them lvl20 upon FoW/UW entrance (similar to what already exists when doing HM).

/signed

bhavv · Jul 09, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

then why don't you use Ursan Blessing. The reason why you started this thread was to get away from UB, so why even bring that up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Never said you did, I never even brought it up, you did, multiple times in your posts.

Please learn to read and comprehend a little better. The whole reasoning behing allowing henchmen into UW and SoW in my OP is so that people who DONT want to use Ursan can feel free to play it their own way.

You are clouded by your own personal beliefs of how the game should be played. UW and FoW are literally no-go areas for non ursan players. You cannot just say 'well why dont you use it' to people that strongly oppose and dislike ursan way.

You should really stop posting in a thread which you cant understand.

bhavv · Jul 09, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

So if someone primary character is a Mesmer and they want to actually finish the Underworld it is not going to happen.

Starting a pug right now for a UW Clear is almost laughable and takes way to long just getting a group together.

I hate pugs and refuse to do it but the good news is I have 2 accounts.

All great points. A mesmer or an assasin could at least attemt to complete UW / FoW with H/H. They may still not be able to play the Elite areas, but UW and FoW are not Elite areas anyway (anyone that thinks they are = nubcake)

Starting a pug for UW or FoW with any character except for monks without ursan on your skill bar and R10 norn title track is laughable.

And I wish I had 2 accounts as well for 6 heroes

Kanyatta · Jul 09, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Not what I was getting at. Not playing with henchmen make it less playable and forces people to make groups, which makes it harder to enter, not do.

To me, a game shouldn't be made harder just because less people play it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Henchmen are a 'last resort' for when you have no time to or do not want to find other players

And that would be your opinion. For me, real people are a 'last resort' if I can't accomplish something H/H. I'd rather not take the chance of dealing with a really stupid person (who run rampant in GW) or waiting an extra hour just to form up a group.

MithranArkanere · Jul 09, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

And many people uses Pringles cans to make WiFi antennae.

You seeing something in a way does not change the real use of that thing.
Pringles cans are meant to carry Pringles.
Henchmen are meant to be a last resort.

It's not my opinion, is design.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Please learn to read and comprehend a little better. The whole reasoning behing allowing henchmen into UW and SoW in my OP is so that people who DONT want to use Ursan can feel free to play it their own way.

You are clouded by your own personal beliefs of how the game should be played. UW and FoW are literally no-go areas for non ursan players. You cannot just say 'well why dont you use it' to people that strongly oppose and dislike ursan way.

You should really stop posting in a thread which you cant understand.

Funny, it seems you can't understand my posts, but I understand yours. I said you made this thread to get away from PuGs and Ursan Blessing. And I never made that a suggestion, you did. So please stop trying to flame me with pointless "facts" because you clearly do not understand what I am saying.

I'll even bold it for you this time: I was just stating my opinions. And while I did that, you say I'm trying to force you to play how I want you to play. I never said that, I said how I would rather have the game, I never said "This is how the game MUST be!11!1!!one!1!1eleven!" I said "This is how I would prefer the game to be." There is a difference, a big difference.

I stated my opinions, and now I'm forced to defend how they were opinions on how I wish the game was, and not that I'm trying to force you to do things how I want. I gave alternate suggestions, I said why I dislike your suggestion, and I said why it wasn't done in the first place. No where did I insult you without you insulting me first, same goes to Tala.

Please don't say to stop posting in a thread where I do not understand when I do understand, and it is you who doesn't understand what I am saying.

N1ghtstalker · Jul 09, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

"Devona is using Healing signet!"
"Bladed Aatxe used Savage Slash!"
*pain*
/notsigned
henches aren't of any use in the UW or FoW
just team up with another person so you can get heroes

Tyla · Jul 09, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

No where did I insult you without you insulting me first, same goes to Tala.

Tala? The "Y" is nowhere near the "A" on a common Querty keyboard.

As for personal attacks, nobody has done so whatsoever. I merely had a problem about your suggestion to this suggestion to limit it to the other two outposts only.

jimme · Jul 09, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Tala? The "Y" is nowhere near the "A" on a common Querty keyboard.

The U is nowhere near the W

Konig Des Todes · Jul 09, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Tala? The "Y" is nowhere near the "A" on a common Querty keyboard.

As for personal attacks, nobody has done so whatsoever. I merely had a problem about your suggestion to this suggestion to limit it to the other two outposts only.

My apologies on the name thing, it was on the last page and I did not feel like looking back. Tala, and Tyla kind of sound the same anyways >.> And my limiting suggestion is based on the lore part of the game.

Kanyatta · Jul 09, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

It's not my opinion, is design.

Once you find an interview with a dev or an instance where they say "henchmen are not meant to be used unless you cannot find real people", then I will agree with you.

MithranArkanere · Jul 09, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I'm not googling for something that doesn't really matter...

But you can see the game boxes. Mine of the Prophecies Special Edition (in Spanish) says that you can use henchmen "If you can't find other players".

The point is that Elite areas are important. Not something you do in spare time. IT's something to gather people, plan and work together.

They require tactics and such, not skills using the Spacebar to make the Warrior Henchmen lure enemies, and using the flag to move the AI party.

Heroes are allowed there because they are the 'final resort' when there's absolutely no one to join, but at least someone else should be there in Elite missions.

CoopaTroopa · Jul 09, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Personally, I'd say elite areas would be made HARDER with only h/h. Imagine a PvE area where you HAD to use only set henchmen and heroes. This would immediately cut out a large chunk of the PvE only builds that just molest their way through the game (ursan teams, imbagons, etc). It would be dependent on YOUR skill, not whether johny ursan over there has farmed enough norn points.

As for the design of the game being for real people, meh. I can see how they want to encourage play with other humans, but I think that making PvE only skills unusable on heroes is about as much of a catch as there needs to be.

Let the henchmen see these areas, they've been hearing people talk about them for ages now and still don't know what they look like

bhavv · Jul 09, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

"Devona is using Healing signet!"
"Bladed Aatxe used Savage Slash!"
*pain*
/notsigned
henches aren't of any use in the UW or FoW
just team up with another person so you can get heroes

Dont take Devona then.

So I hear Herta, Sogolon, Khim, and Mhenlo make your team bullet proof!

Some people know how to use henchmen and can use them far better then a pug team.

You wouldnt have to use henchmen if you didnt want to, but plenty of good H/H'ers would have no problem playing through UW and FoW with H/H.

I dont team up with other people anymore.